Hits and Misses – 2009/5/22

Comments (15)

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  1. Ron Greiner says:

    $20,000 in Miami seems high. A 30-year-old couple and 2 children can get HSA insurance for $312.63/month or $3,751/year. That has a “0” deductible on preventative services.

    $5,700 tax credit would pay 100% of the insurance PLUS deposit $1,949 into the families HSA. Of course the HSA deposit would be larger in less expensive cities.

    Vote Republican and get FREE insurance and a HUGE HSA deposit.

  2. Ron Greiner says:

    The above HSA quote is in Miami zip code 33157.

  3. Vicki says:

    John, how did you guess that I wanted to know what it would be like to be eaten by a giant lizard?

    My day would not have been complete without all the gory details.

  4. Nancy says:

    Interesting finding on young adults. It contradicts the conventional wisdom.

  5. Ron Greiner says:

    Governor Charlie Crist (R-FL) has 3.8 million uninsured Floridians and has joined with Blue Cross to sell the worthless “Cover Florida” health insurance. Crist is lost in the stone age. Crist says “Cover Florida” has ROBUST benefits but that is a lie. The maximum Crist’s plan will pay is $25,000 in a year. With a cancer the consumer would pass $25,000 in the first 2 days.

    I’m not a Reagan Republican because then I couldn’t say something negative about another Republican. I’m a Bush Repulican which allows my to tell the truth. Crist is so stupid on health care he must be defeated in his race with Marco Rubio for the U.S. Senate.

    It’s TIME to fight Socialism in America. Conservatives need to stand with Maro Rubio. Current Florida law makes it illegal for an employer to purchase low cost portable HSA insurance on an employee for $312 a month in Miami. Employers must purchase dangerous non-portable group plans for $20,000 a year. The results of the state prohibiting low cost HSA individual insurance has produced 3.8 million uninsured Floridians.

    The truth is like a hurricane, it blows the lies away. Hurricaine season is coming. If a hurricaine hit’s in Florida all of the businesses that are distroyed will find their employees uninsured by Florida law. There isn’t even a COBRA extension when a company folds. Talk about your man made disasters. Trust me, Governor Crist will not warn his citizens about the danger of employer-based health insurance before hurricane season.

    Florida employers save workers comp and payroll taxes on HSA deposits for employees. Employees save payroll and federal income tax. Workers comp on some employees is 30% of of their income. If the employer pays the above family $5,950 in their tax free HSA the employer saves $2,240 ($15 an hour pay. $5,950 X .3765). The employee saves $2,121 (28% Fed and 7.65% payroll tax). Together the employee and the employer save $4,361. The HSA health insurance is only $3,744 a year. That’s the magic of the tax free HSA. More is saved in taxes and workers comp than the cost of the HSA insurance. Republican health care reform is much too complicated for Charlie Crist.

    Savings increases in states with state income tax.

    Managed Care Beware.

    It’s TIME for your HSA.

    Vote conservative Republican. Stand with Marco Rubio.


  6. Ron Greiner says:

    Hurricaines hit more states than just Florida. The low cost portable HSA individual insurance is prohibited for employers to purchase on employees in all states.

    Will we make it another hurricaine season without a politician, newspaper or think tank warning the American citizens about the dangers of employer-based health insurance and natural disasters?


  7. Bart says:

    I just noticed that the article doesn’t say ‘insurance premiums’. It seems to be talking about insurance disbursements plus co-pays. From the article: “The numbers do not include administrative costs — so this is paid claims and co-insurance.”

  8. Bart says:

    > Vote Republican and get FREE insurance and a HUGE HSA deposit.


    GOP 1980: Lower marginal tax rates and fewer loopholes. Stop using the tax code to enforce social doctrine.

    GOP 1988: “…a flatter, fairer tax system.”

    GOP 2000: Tax cuts, forget fairness and loopholes. “We have to get the voters their tax cuts.”

    GOP 2009: Drop the employer exemption, but continue high income and payroll tax rates in order to finance a new $5700 giveaway to families, whether they need it or not.

    Like it or not, and regardless of its origins, the tax exclusion for employer benefits is a de facto subsidy for community-rated group coverage, and indirectly a premium subsidy for higher-cost individuals. Low-cost individuals receive little or no monetary benefit from the tax exclusion– it merely compensates low-cost individuals for participating in group coverage.

    If you don’t like community rating, and don’t like seeing tax dollars being used to reduce insurance costs for higher-risk individuals, then the only principled response is to repeal the tax exclusion and return the money to taxpayers in the form of lower payroll and income tax rates.

    It’s beyond me how anyone could oppose an individual mandate to purchase coverage, and yet not have a problem with taking money from taxpayers at gunpoint in order to finance a $5700 giveaway to people whose medical expenses may only be half that amount.

  9. Ron Greiner says:

    Bart you don’t mind that rich people get 100% deduction on their $18,000 employer-based insurance. PHD’s don’t pay payroll tax on their coverage either. Rich people are stealing $9,000 a year in taxes away from the government with employer-based insurance.

    My son has a child and one on the way. His employer doesn’t have employer insurance so he pays taxes on his coverage. The $5,700 tax credit is smaller than the taxes lost on Dr. Goodman’s insurance. My son doesn’t want as much as Dr. Goodman’s tax dodge, just $5,700.

    It’s also true that because my son is young so his HSA deposit will be larger than some old 55-year-old white guy who drinks and smokes and is on high blood pressure medication. That’s life Bart.

    Young people vote Republican because your HSA deposits will be larger than old rich people who are getting the tax dodges now.

    Bart loves Dr. Goodman’s tax dodge but calls giving my son tax relief //taxpayers at gunpoint in order to finance a $5700 giveaway to people whose medical expenses may only be half that amount.// I could say, taking taxes at gun point to finance rich peoples tax dodge for employer based health insurance.

    Sorry Bart but the tax free HSA and low cost portable HSA health insurance is the law of the land and your community rating is just a socialist dream of you and President Obama.

    Stop the socialists / Vote Republican

  10. Bart says:

    Ron, NB the first part of my previous comment was for your benefit. The remainder was just a general rant. I should have made that clearer.

    > Bart you don’t mind that rich people get 100% deduction on their $18,000 employer-based insurance.

    That’s false. I’ve been complaining about the employer exclusion since around 1980 to anyone who would listen.

    > My son doesn’t want as much as Dr. Goodman’s tax dodge, just $5,700.

    That’s just two wrongs trying to make a right, replacing one senseless redistribution policy with another. Why not give him a food and housing allowance as well?

    > Bart loves Dr. Goodman’s tax dodge…

    Again, that’s false. I’ve never spoken in favor of the existing tax exclusion. I’d like to see it replaced. But if the replacement tax credit is not going to take over the exclusion’s existing social function, then there’s not much reason to have a credit. Better to forget the tax breaks entirely and instead reduce income and payroll tax rates.

  11. Ron Greiner says:

    Bart, I’m sorry but you are wrong. At this point in TIME we will have but two choices. Choice ONE will be the Democrat’s plan, the path to Socialized Medicine. Choice TWO is the Republican’s HSA plan. There is no choice THREE, the Ron and Bart plan.

    The Republican plan is fair because the same tax credit is given to young people and older people. The Republican plan helps younger people more but that’s life. A young 30-year-old male gets FREE HSA health insurance and a $1949 HSA deposit. A 50-year-old male would get FREE HSA insurance and a $416 HSA deposit.

    The Republican plan lifts the cost of health insurance from the backs of small business, city and county governments. The Republican plan strips Obama’s support of young voters. This is a very simple plan of attack Bart.

    Think of the HSA as the bright white light before the shockwave of reform. Think of the HSA as the sword from the stone to stop Socialized Medicine dead in it’s tracks. The HSA is so simple a caveman could do it.

    Florida’s Charlie Crist signed the pledge not to raise state taxes and now immediatly wants to raise taxes on smokers for more government health care. That sounds exactly like Obama. Socialists are in both parties.

    Wise Up. Save premium, eliminate taxes, build wealth, become informed and empowered.

    Young Americans Unite / Vote Republican


  12. Bart says:

    Ron, the Coburn plan (it’s premature to call it the Republican plan) has no chance of being enacted in the foreseeable future, so I wouldn’t really call it a choice.

    It’s unfair because it taxes people unevenly in order to pay for an unnecessary redistribution scheme. It makes no economic sense because it gives away the money that will be needed to shore up the state run risk pools after it torpedoes the employer-based group plans. It further distorts the health care markets by replacing a 15-45% incentive to consume with a 100% incentive to consume.

    You think young voters are going to flock to the GOP as a result of this plan, but it didn’t happen when McCain ran on nearly the same thing. And if the GOP can’t do better than to advance such a naked attempt to buy votes with free money, then it’s no better than the Democrats.

  13. Bart says:

    P.S. The Coburn plan is unfair because it gives the same $5700 gift to a childless couple as to a family of eight. In one case this amounts to $2,850 per person, in the other $712.50 per person. How is this fair?

  14. John Goodman says:

    Bart, basically you get about $1,100 for having a child. but you don’t get more money for having more children. On the other hand, last time I checked (which admittedly was some time ago) family poilicies typically have one standard premium, regardless of the number of children.

    So even though the subsidy does not expand with the number of children, neither does the cost of the insurance.

  15. Bart says:

    John, thanks. Sorry if my comments are becoming tedious.